Curse

bungusmaximus · May 12, 2010, 04:58 PM // 16:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Del

the point is, they only care about the title, they could care less that they're pretty much making RA a pain for anyone else.

What use is the glads title anyways nowadays? lol everyone will know that you will have earned it by farming baddies in RA. Titles are srs business. At least in HA rank gets yu into puggies easily, but glads title gets you what exactly? LOLGUILDWARS.

Sarevok Thordin · May 12, 2010, 06:14 PM // 18:14

State of RA?

Ranger/Mesmer bot heaven (mostly ranger).

Jeydra · May 12, 2010, 06:54 PM // 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krill

Your argument is perfectly valid, but ultimately good runs in RA when you're not syncing is a roll of the dice until you get a decent team and stomp all the bad ones. There's rarely, if ever a truly good match in RA that could go either way. Syncing simply goes strait to the stomping part, even if it is a bit like winning the special olympics.

You don't play RA enough. I've been doing casual RA over the past few days and I've already had several matches that could've gone either way. Also players in RA may not have gotten better, but for certain the builds have gotten better (in general).

@Above - verily.

Del · May 12, 2010, 09:16 PM // 21:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by bungusmaximus

What use is the glads title anyways nowadays? lol everyone will know that you will have earned it by farming baddies in RA. Titles are srs business. At least in HA rank gets yu into puggies easily, but glads title gets you what exactly? LOLGUILDWARS.

exactly, but lamers gonna lame, amirite?

Krill · May 13, 2010, 04:14 AM // 04:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Also players in RA may not have gotten better, but for certain the builds have gotten better (in general).

Well, you're right that I don't play a lot of RA anymore. I played a little this week and it still seemed full of the usual RTL, mind blast, VoR, tab hex, e-lunge, whatever else is broken glad farmers.

I shouldn't have said "never get a good game". Sure there are good games, but most of the time it's wrecking or being wrecked fairly quickly. Of course, that's what the arena format is suppose to be. Quick, cheap games. And now I don't even remember what my point was.

jazilla · Jun 03, 2010, 05:55 PM // 17:55

@Sankt: now that the bots are gone, we need an updated impression from you. You can keep all of the "empathy" though.

Xslash · Jun 04, 2010, 01:23 AM // 01:23

all i can say is.

RA is in a sad state
when just having a monk on your team means you get 25 consec.

even if its a pve prophecies only, non-max and non-modded armor/weapons, 185-attribute, and 0 glad-point monk.

EDIT: blacked out names.

urania · Jun 04, 2010, 08:54 AM // 08:54

just thank "the gods of RA" you havent met any synchs or the perfect teams or multiple monk teams who refuse to resign and rather not post next time.

Jeydra · Jun 29, 2010, 05:48 PM // 17:48

I've come to rather hate RA. If you're playing to win there are essentially 3 (!) viable professions - Monk, Warrior and Ranger. Monk because teams with Monks beat teams without Monks 80-90% of the time. Warrior because Warriors deal big damage. Ranger because interrupts are so damn effective and you can poison pressure as well. Everything else is subpar:

Elementalists are destroyed by Rangers with their massive armour vs. Elemental, and their interrupts crushing the Elementalist's energy. You can't even overpower Mending Touch with BFlash anymore, leaving you even more vulnerable to Rangers. The profession's very vulnerable to anti-Monk Mesmers, too.

Necros can be excellent if they get a good team (TA Necro bar ftw), but standalone they aren't very effective.

Mesmers can be excellent if they get a good team, but standalone they generally get stomped. They have nothing to defend themselves from physicals other than Empathy (which doesn't stop him from killing you), they need a Monk to function and even if they get a Monk they may still get stomped (AL60 character without real defensive skills).

Paragons don't work 4v4.

Dervishes are outdone by Warriors.

Ritualists are outdone by Monks.

Assassins are generally inferior to Warriors, although they work better than Dervishes.

So RA tiers are now -

Top tier: War / Ranger / Monk
Mid tier: Sin / Mes / Nec
Low tier: Ele
Trash tier: Derv / Para / Rit

I hate the fact that the top tier is so much more effective than everyone else. I also hate how only 3 professions are really viable. I strongly believe that if ANet hosted a RA tournament where the only thing you controlled was your own build, then most people will pick W / R / Mo. What sucks as well is that Monks are almost invulnerable. Sure they can be killed, but you need such a massive skill advantage to win a no Monk vs. Monk game it's just not funny. Teams with Monks have always been advantaged, but two years ago it was a lot easier to win no Monk vs. Monk than now, with massive armour stacking, stances on every Monk and super efficient heals all around. I think it's even possible to argue that Monks are god tier, with their only real drawback being that they don't win games if their team can't deal damage.

I hope some kind of balance update can remedy this, but I doubt it'll happen ... after all, any nerf to W / R / Mo would have major repercussions elsewhere. Not to mention there'd be a whole heap of Warriors QQ'ing about not being able to kill stuff / melee hate in general even though if you don't have melee hate you die - or Rangers QQ'ing if interrupts get nerfed because interrupting is "skilful".

Bobby2 · Jun 29, 2010, 07:53 PM // 19:53

tl;dr but classifying Rits as trash, never mind comparing them directly to Monks, just about invalidates the entire post

Jeydra · Jun 29, 2010, 11:38 PM // 23:38

Yeah well what Rit builds do you think work well in RA? Let's see -

Any kind of healing build is outdone by Monks.
Any kind of spirit build is beaten by Rangers (not to mention isn't very effective in the first place).
There's Spirit Strength, which is decent enough but it's AL60 character on front lines and is vulnerable to enchantment removal.
I suppose there's weird Destruction / DWG / Rupture Soul builds or similar, but so much of their damage can be kited they fail to kill good players.

Am I missing something? What else is there?

Bobby2 · Jun 30, 2010, 12:29 AM // 00:29

Best Rits I've seen were hybrids and certainly didn't rely on something wonky like Destruction. DwG, GwK, even Xinrae's Weapon dudes offer excellent spike support while adding significantly to the resilience of a team.

Wouldn't want a Rit as main healer, but a) it's better than nothing and b) pidgeonholing them into full Resto to compete head-on with Monks doesn't do them justice.

Sirius Bsns · Jun 30, 2010, 03:28 AM // 03:28

Every class has their pros and cons, but ultimately the most effective professions [imo] are:
Warriors > Rangers > Assassins > Dervishes > Paragons,
Monk > Rt,
and Mesmers > Elementalists > Necromancers.

Warriors reign supreme solely because of their utility and armor rating, followed by the resilient rangers.
Monks have amazing conditionless healing [no spirits required!]
Mesmers have the best armor-ignoring damage and utility, and elementalists have the 2nd best damage caster-wise. Necros just suck so bad atm [imo anyway]...

My current experiences also lead me to say that the RA meta is simply:
syncing,
Mind Wrack Mesmers,
moar syncing,,
[insert every anti-melee skill/spell here]
sum moar syncing,
baed players that don't resign... evar...,
even moar syncing,
B.Surge [despite the nerf],
...take a wild guess at what's next... MOAR SYNCING.

I have no problems with syncers, but it's just what I see and I'll call it like I see it. I actually like competition, so syncers are A-Okay with me! =)

Wish Swiftdeath · Jun 30, 2010, 06:23 AM // 06:23

DWG rits are amazing, they usually blow up teams in under a minute because they're bad and ball

Missing HB · Jun 30, 2010, 06:28 AM // 06:28

Most people go in as Bsurger , ranger , antimelee/midnight sig mesmer , antimelee necro... because they usually keep getting no healer. Warrior and sins are good , but they rely on having a monk in team to work... . Usually , any empathy , parasitic or blind makes them useless ( if no healer in the party ) .

About syncing : yes it's fun to have competition , but why would you have to fight a prepared team ( using vocal communication most of time ) with a random one ? . Usually , syncers run TA builds like 1 war 1 ranger 1 nec 1 monk, a build that's not that easy to beat even with a prepared team , so how could you even get a chance with a completly random team...

Edge Igneas · Jun 30, 2010, 09:09 AM // 09:09

Why are people bagging Rt's? There are lots of good Rt builds, especially in Support. Nowadays in RA where monks are so scarce having a healing Rt on your team is better then nothing.

urania · Jun 30, 2010, 11:38 AM // 11:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius Bsns

Every class has their pros and cons, but ultimately the most effective professions [imo] are:
Warriors > Rangers > Assassins > Dervishes > Paragons,
Monk > Rt,
and Mesmers > Elementalists > Necromancers.

Warriors reign supreme solely because of their utility and armor rating, followed by the resilient rangers.
Monks have amazing conditionless healing [no spirits required!]
Mesmers have the best armor-ignoring damage and utility, and elementalists have the 2nd best damage caster-wise. Necros just suck so bad atm [imo anyway]...

My current experiences also lead me to say that the RA meta is simply:
syncing,
Mind Wrack Mesmers,
moar syncing,,
[insert every anti-melee skill/spell here]
sum moar syncing,
baed players that don't resign... evar...,
even moar syncing,
B.Surge [despite the nerf],
...take a wild guess at what's next... MOAR SYNCING.

I have no problems with syncers, but it's just what I see and I'll call it like I see it. I actually like competition, so syncers are A-Okay with me! =)

the part about mesmers having the best armor ignoring damage is a rather arguable claim, especially if you compare it to insidious and spoil victor/soul bind. they're fairly on pair with necros; one could easily agree necros even have the edge over mesmers ever since ff and ps were buffed (and also because of weakness spam), since they either appear(ed) in team setups with a mesmer or (with very few exceptions) without one (and not vice versa).

vor+empathy do work wonders though if you get either or both to stick for their full durations.
if you get both such hexers on your team its pretty much free 25 wins, given you also get a decent damage dealer/pressure applier, be it a mind blaster, a ranger or a warrior.

ironically, the only (or at least, most reliable) way to beat such hex builds (mes+nec setups) is to have a >decent< ranger on your team, coupled with a warrior and ideally, a necro or another ranger/warrior.
dual mo teams stand a fair chance at drawing the hexovers, but if the latter has no melee damage (and hence no ways of feeding opposing monks' bonnis) then the monks might just run out of energy eventually.
moreover, having a full caster team (given they have proper builds that can actually kill...most typically mesmers in combination with mind blasters) also helps against hex overs since one doesnt need to worry about empathy/insidious/faint removals.

last but not least, support rits are trash. mostly because chances you'll get 2 offensive characters actually able to kill are very low. i do love destructive was g. rits and spirits streght though...people ball in ra all the time, so unless you face a full and competent synch, chances you'll get far with those rits are relatively high, given you also get 2 other decent players.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Missing HB

About syncing : yes it's fun to have competition , but why would you have to fight a prepared team ( using vocal communication most of time ) with a random one ? . Usually , syncers run TA builds like 1 war 1 ranger 1 nec 1 monk, a build that's not that easy to beat even with a prepared team , so how could you even get a chance with a completly random team...

hope you get lucky or dual mo synch in and grief them out (works like a charm).
I actually faced one of those perfect (claimed to be a non synch even) teams with a mowwa, ce necro with faint, ff and ps, apply r/mo with deb shot 2 rupts and a hammer w and surprisingly, we won, mostly because of our good monk (>without< bonnis and with guardian o.O) and half decent teammates. however, it doesnt really make a lot of sense, because in theory their necro can and should rip guardian apart with defile defenses spam and/or ce removals, whilst their ranger would have to d shot guardian and woh (instead he was more on me than the mo), so...
there's always exceptions, i suppose.

Ariena Najea · Jun 30, 2010, 10:28 PM // 22:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Yeah well what Rit builds do you think work well in RA? Let's see -

Any kind of healing build is outdone by Monks.
Any kind of spirit build is beaten by Rangers (not to mention isn't very effective in the first place).
There's Spirit Strength, which is decent enough but it's AL60 character on front lines and is vulnerable to enchantment removal.
I suppose there's weird Destruction / DWG / Rupture Soul builds or similar, but so much of their damage can be kited they fail to kill good players.

Am I missing something? What else is there?

I played around with DwG for a bit and found that using it with Rupture + Destruction was absurd when facing bad teams, and near worthless against good teams. DwG with assorted support made me a sub-par Monk with a random spike that I couldn't use effectively because I couldn't position myself well without being obvious while healing.

I still occasionally roll my old Rt/P SS build though, it is actually effective. I bring the following:

Spear 12
Spawning 11+1+1
Channeling 6+1

Spear of Lightning
Merciless Spear (or Wild Throw)
Barbed Spear
Disrupting Throw
Weapon of Aggression
Sight Beyond Sight
Spirit's Strength
Resurrection Signet

Pumps damage while being able to stay out of the frontline. Able to spike with DThrow (or interrupt), apply DW, and pressure. Plays a lot like the old R/W Turret, and is hard to shut down if you play it right due to the anti-Blind, SBS for a cover, and rupts for hexes. Weakness doesn't kill your damage completely since you get so much bonus damage. Beats stance Monks by being able to make them waste stances when you can easily change targets, more so than a frontliner. Ghost Forge is a nice armor boost, and camping a defensive set makes you harder to kill. Have played this as well in AB with Brace Yourself! instead of Res Siggy.

Jeydra · Jul 01, 2010, 12:11 AM // 00:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wish Swiftdeath

DWG rits are amazing, they usually blow up teams in under a minute because they're bad and ball

In which case why don't you play WoH Monk with Symbol of Wrath or ZB Ele with Guardian + Flame Burst + Inferno and blow teams up in under a minute?

@above - it works to a point, it just doesn't work much more than that because you're still vulnerable to enchant strips (not so much to Drain Enchant / Rip Enchant etc, but to Strip Enchant, Rend Enchants, Rip + Corrupt Enchant, etc). Sight Beyond Sight also works to a point, but blind still hinders you, because it means you have to stop and put SBS up. You also have to put Weapon of Aggression up as well (another 1s gone), you get no KDs, your Deep Wound is unreliable, and so on.

Not to say the build doesn't work, but it just doesn't pump as much pressure as Warriors do and therefore, in my opinion, Warriors are better. You could argue that SS Rits are low tier though, I suppose.

@urania - point with Necros is that they don't work well alone. If you're going into RA with a Necro primary, what would you run? You could run the TA Nec and hope to get a TA-style team, but what's the chance of that? I think Mesmers have it (slightly) better in RA, although not by much.

Snow Bunny · Jul 01, 2010, 06:48 AM // 06:48

Standalone, the ranger shits on the mes, but a dual mes team adds too much pressure for one monk. Even with SMind and veil, dual mesmers (edenial/dom & illusion) can just throw around stupid amounts of myriad pressure that eat away at what is ultimately a pretty small energy pool.

One my last run tonight, the only teams that gave me a run for trouble involved heavy application of hexes.

An idiot can play mes and cause trouble. Your ranger needs to be good and have good ping or else they're completely ineffective.

Also, where are all these bsurgers people talk about?

Finally, I hate dervishes. Not because they're good, but to the contrary - they're completely ineffectual and more often than not played by the weakest players. It's so frustrating to have an otherwise ideal team weakened by a clueless fool running around with Avatar of Dwayna or something.